The New Astronomy Book by Danny R. Faulkner

Comments

1. MarmeeMarch says

   September 22, 2014 at 7:23 am

   I wish you would read some of the Christian-based challenges to the Young-Earth viewpoint and reconsider your stance on some of the science books you recommend so highly. Some authors to look for could include Francis Collins, Karl Giberson, Darrell Falk, and Sigmund Brouwer for his Who Made the Moon? Thanks for considering!

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2. dmspetman says

   September 23, 2014 at 8:20 am

   MarmeeMarch, how do you know she hasn’t? I wish you would read some of the challenges CMI and AIG have to the views of Francis Collins, Karl Giberson, etc. There are a multitude of well-reasoned responses to their views. Theistic evolution has been rebutted for decades now. It is those authors who often seem poorly versed in problems with their own views.

   As a little background, I am an MIT graduate in engineering and have found that, as a creationist who occasionally discussed creation and evolution with friends and colleagues in the science and engineering communities, I often have a better understanding of the evolutionist perspective than they do of the creationist viewpoint.

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3. MarmeeMarch says

   September 29, 2014 at 6:53 am

   I do not know that she hasn’t, because I haven’t combed through her entire blog to try to find those entries where she addresses any of them. My question was to her, and I would still like to read any response she may choose to give.

   For dmspetman — I would not expect any non-evangelical Protestant Christian to understand the Young Earth Creationist viewpoint, as it is a theological matter first and foremost. I trust you had many fruitful conversations.

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   • dmspetman says

     September 30, 2014 at 4:19 pm

     For MarmeeMarch: You said, “I wish you would read some of the Christian-based challenges to the Young-Earth viewpoint and reconsider your stance on some of the science books you recommend so highly.” That is not a question (to her or anyone else), though if you meant it that way, then I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt; however, it also doesn’t matter whether Danika blogged on those authors or not…I don’t assume someone will post all of her reading material on her blog. I would just have asked if she has read them (and given the authors you list, about theistic evolution in general). Your comment, since it wasn’t written as a question, seemed to presume that Danika surely has not considered the theistic evolution perspective.

     As for my conversations, how do you know they were non-evangelical Protestant Christians? Actually, I think most of the folks I’ve discussed this with over the years did identify as evangelical Christians. They tended to be as unaware as the non-Christians of the distinctions (and overlapping categories) of historical/forensic science and operational/empirical science. Most of these discussions (maybe 80%?) occurred during my undergraduate and graduate school days, but I found my non-Christian friends more willing to listen to the “young earth” perspective. My old earth Christian friends shot down any suggestions to have creation speakers on campus. (Interestingly, my Asian American Christian friends were more willing to listen than my other Christian friends and I think the Chinese Christian Fellowship [CCF] had a speaker who challenged evolution and long ages on campus one time–I wish I had spent more time in the Korean and Chinese Christian fellowships back then.) My Christian theistic evolution and progressive creationist friends, in the larger evangelical Christian group, seemed to be less willing to consider historical-grammatical arguments and even had proof texts (using very poor exegesis quoting 2 Peter 3:8 no less) and no desire to challenge any old age timeline assumptions. It was impossible to discuss scientific evidence with them (though this was before much of the soft tissue discoveries, and better-articulated discussions of information content [instead of just mentioning the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics] and other evidence was widely documented) or they considered it irrelevant, but strangely, my non-Christians friends seemed to be more willing to discuss questions of epistemology and “how we know what we think we know.” (Matters of epistemology come up, much to my chagrin, in engineering more often than I would have expected, too.) Of course, my non-Christian friends and I also discussed the nature of mind, spirit, and body, and many other topics. My non-Christian friends seemed more willing to accept that we were dealing with difficult issues of how to interpret evidence (we didn’t use the term “worldview” then). I kind of miss those days now, but now I barely have time to comment on blog posts. 🙂 I would like to think those discussions were fruitful.

     My discussions on “creation vs. evolution” (as I put it) were not (maybe surprisingly) primarily theological (probably more so with my evangelical Christian friends), but I am not sure if you mean primarily theological versus philosophical or scientific. This can (and does) cover philosophical and especially epistemological questions/problems (all underpinnings of what is often just called “science.”) The specific biblical timeline may be theological “first and foremost” (more precisely, hermeneutical). But in general, I believe this topic can be primarily philosophical (more precisely, epistemological), but you may have the perspective that theology is the mother of philosophy, so I guess the point may be moot.

     As a father of young twin girls, I actually considered reading Brouwer’s book, but after reading excerpts and references, it appears to be a standard theistic evolution book (though from a parenting perspective). Being somewhat familiar with Francis Collins, Karl Giberson, and Darrell Falk’s writings (as well as rebuttals on AIG and CMI websites), I don’t feel the need to read another book of similar arguments that betray little knowledge of arguments against theistic evolution and quote other TE thinkers and secular sources. (Just as I haven’t seen the need to read much more of the progressive creation [PC] perspective outside of Hugh Ross’ books and RTB articles, since his ministry seems to encapsulate that perspective, at least at the popular level currently. Although I would like to think other PC folks do better Hebrew exegesis than he does, and I do believe that TEs threat the evidence more consistently than PCs do.)

     For Danika: None of the major biblical creation ministries (AIG, ICR, and CMI) have said that this is a salvation issue (I actually haven’t heard anyone even say it, except old earth Christians making the accusation that that is what YECs say). Have you been accused of this? I now find it sad that this has to be said so often when this is easy to find on their websites. However, they have said (not always using these words) it is an issue of epistemology, hermeneutics, and having a consistently biblical worldview (including what the gospel means in context), which is irritating enough to those who disagree.

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     • Danika says

       September 30, 2014 at 4:45 pm

       Actually, I know those sites are careful to class the young earth aspect of Creationism as an issue that does not affect salvation. I do think that secular evolution has far-reaching consequences in ideology, and that it stands in direct opposition to the authority and account of Scripture.

       I was raised by a theistic evolutionist, though we did not use that term then, and I actually came to a crisis of understanding in a university physical anthropology class. I became a Creationist years before I became a disciple of Christ based on actual study. The evidence was clear to me, even as one living in sin.

       It was only some eight or so years ago that I even heard the term “Young Earth”. I have done quite a bit of research and feel very comfortable with my understanding of Creation and how Scripture addresses it as well as how science is involved.

       In teaching our children, we address all three views so they will understand the philosophical ramifications of each. We would like them to be able to address the issue with intelligence.

       I always preface non-salvation issues with the disclaimer that they are not salvation issues. In writing, observers can easily become confused, I think, depending upon where they stand in their walk of discipleship. It is never my goal to misrepresent an issue, even unintentionally.

       I appreciate your comments, and again, the tone of this conversation.

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4. Danika says

   September 29, 2014 at 8:07 am

   I appreciate the kind tone in this discourse. I have not read Who Made the Moon? by Brouwer, though it sounds interesting. I am familiar with Intelligent Design, Theistic Evolution, and some of the changes to the traditional view of evolution. I’ve taken classes, read articles and reviews and watched a number of debates. However, to say that I know all there is to know would be ludicrous.

   I want to be clear that I do not feel this is a salvation issue. I do tend to agree with many of the theological arguments of young earth Creationism.

   My children read close to 150 books a year. Most of them are from a secular viewpoint, many from an evolutionary worldview. They are well aware of the different theological camps on evolution. It does not hurt my heart to give them an alternate worldview incorporated into their books.

   I appreciate the Christian worldview present in Master Books’ works. I appreciate the manner in which they present traditional dating and then discuss an alternative. Then the author follows with the explanation of why they feel the alternative view to be reasonable. This allows my family to discuss the reasonableness and scientific evidence for each viewpoint.

   I was not easily won over to the idea of Young Earth. Could I be wrong? Yes. The book of Genesis is a historical book, but perhaps we don’t understand the manner in which the Creation account was written. I do understand the scientific evidence, and fall on the side of Young Earth.

   Again, I don’t feel this (young earth) is a gospel issue. I just really appreciate the opportunity to present my children with the idea that there are different views. Master Books creates beautiful materials and nothing I’ve reviewed thus far has been dogmatic in my view.

   Thank you for your patience. I have been far behind schedule this week.

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5. MarmeeMarch says

   October 3, 2014 at 5:26 am

   Thank you, Danika! I appreciate having this information about your perspective(s). If you do read Who Made the Moon? you may not learn anything strictly “new” to you, but as he is a writer, the book flows well and the stories he tells are well written. And thanks also to dmspetsman, for his warmth and enthusiasm.

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